Instructional Leadership that Works

This interview is part of the Follow the Leaders project, an ongoing series from Relay Graduate School of Education and funded by the Barr Foundation to share insights and inspiration on leading for equity, wellness, and achievement. 

Celeste Terry and Rick Romain are two Relay Leadership Programs alumni and New York City educators achieving marked levels of student success.

As Superintendent of Brooklyn’s District 18, in 2024 Terry saw her district make the greatest one year gains in math achievement out of all 32 community school districts. Several of her schools posted double-digit gains in proficiency rates in both math and ELA - including PS 268 Emma Lazarus Community School, which Principal Romain leads. 

From 2022 to 2024, the percentage of PS 268 students who scored proficient in reading increased by 33 percentage points (compared to a 0.1 percentage point increase citywide); math proficiency increased by 46 percentage points, nearly triple the citywide gains.

In honor of National Principals Month, Relay GSE invited the two for a RealTalk at Relay conversation, “Instructional Leadership that Works,” with Shavonne Gibson, Relay’s Chief of Learning for Professional Education. You can watch the whole event anytime.

The following excerpts from that discussion, with minor edits for clarity.

Achieving Success as a Neighborhood School

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Gibson: Celeste, tell us a little bit about District 18.

Terry: I'm the Community District Superintendent of the best district in Brooklyn, District 18, which is located in Flatbush and Canarsie. This is the neighborhood I grew up in and currently live in. So basically all my neighbors’ children go to my schools.

Most of the children who attend here are the children of immigrants. I'm a first generation immigrant, and so is Rick. Within the last two years, we've had a surge of multilingual learners. So our community is really about different cultures. 

We have about 10,000 students, in seven middle schools, 13 elementary schools, and one K-8. We also have some of the best principals in the world!

Gibson: Rick, tell us a little bit about how your school has moved under your leadership.

Romain: When I became principal in 2019, we were the second-lowest performing school in District 18. So that was very humbling. Currently PS 268 is the number one elementary school in ELA and math. We’ve made a lot of progress in a short amount of time. So we're really excited. The morale is very high. We want to try to keep it that way.

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‍Terry: Rick also has the highest number of students in shelters, and the highest number of students who are asylum seekers. So on paper, Rick Romain's school looks like it should not be doing that well. He's beating other schools that do not have the same demographics.

Narrowing the Focus 

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Gibson: Celeste, you're seeing incredible growth in reading and math at multiple schools in your district. Tell us how those data points came to be from your perspective.

Terry: First, you have to develop your people. The principals of the schools matter, and we were really targeted and strategic about choosing the right leaders, who are reflective, resilient and really believe in developing other leaders. Then, we worked really hard to develop our teachers.

Being able to partner with an organization like Relay was the thing that changed it for us. I think lots of times we look at school and teacher improvement as magic. But in District 18, we believe every school has the capacity to be what Rick Romain’s school is. The thing is really figuring out how to make that happen. 

And we're making that happen by focusing on three big things: analyzing data through our weekly data meetings, effective observation and feedback cycles, and professional learning. Those three big buckets have been the thing that have really accelerated achievement for a majority of my schools. 

Gibson: So back in 2015, Celeste, you first joined us for Relay’s National Principal Academy Fellowship. You were then selected for the prestigious Leverage Leadership Institute in 2017, and you worked with a variety of Relay coaches throughout the years in various capacities. What are some of the instructional leadership approaches that you've learned through these experiences that lie at the heart of your community district’s efforts right now?

Terry:  The first thing that really landed well with me and my school leaders was planning weekly data meetings, unpacking exemplars of student work, and looking for student misconceptions. It was something that was so directly tied to student outcomes. 

Our leaders have become so accustomed to doing this work because it's the fabric of every one of my meetings with them. At every one of my meetings, you're going to hear us talking about either weekly data meetings, observation-feedback, or planning really strong professional development. Because we don't believe that you have to do 90 things really well. We believe you’ve got to do these three things really well and you're going to really see impact. (Read how DC Principal LeVar Jenkins also narrowed his focus to achieve impressive results)

"You don't need to do 90 things really well. You've got to do these three things really well, and you're going to see impact: weekly data meetings, effective observation and feedback cycles, and professional learning for teachers and leaders."

This process helped me to not only be able to talk about the work, but able to do the work. A lot of the work that I did with my school leaders was based on what I was doing in Leverage Leadership. I was videotaping myself. I was practicing before I met with my principals. I was coaching them, but also I was being coached.

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The Power of Weekly Data Meetings

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Gibson: So Rick, one of the three things that Celeste just mentioned are weekly data meetings. Can you break it down for us - what is a weekly data meeting?

Romain: A weekly data meeting is the space where teaching teams look at student work, really reflect on what could be improved, and plan a reteach.

One of the first things that I do as the leader is review student work. I try to get the work 24-48 hours before the meeting because I want to become an expert on where the gaps are before the teachers are even sitting down. 

I also create my own exemplar of ideal student work. A lot of times teachers have an idea in their minds about what ideal student work looks like, but unless they put it down on paper and make it concrete, they aren't truly aiming for that ideal. I know that experience myself - I was like that, too, as a teacher. It's very understandable.

In the meeting, we look together at trends in assessment data and in actual student work, to find out the gap between the student work and the exemplar, or the student work and the standard. Then, together with my teachers we come up with a concrete plan to address it.

Finally, I give them a chance to practice a reteach. At first, it's weird for  adults to act out in front of other adults, but I tell them, “This is a safe space.  I'm giving you feedback now rather than giving you feedback later, after you've already tried it in front of the kids.” And then the last part is setting up a time when I'll observe the reteach for real.

Gibson: How do you fit this all in your schedule? The school day is only so long. Can you talk to us a little bit about how you spend time as a school leader?

Romain: I had to redefine what it was to be a principal. My last secretary, God bless her soul, she used to get so mad at me. She was like, “You left me in the office by myself! ” But I was at every team meeting because I really wanted to know what was going on. When you’re giving feedback to teachers I think it is a lot more connected when you have a good sense of the curriculum and what should happen in the lesson rather than just generic feedback.

"I had to redefine what it was to be a principal."

Terry: This is a paradigm shift for a lot of people. One of the ways we keep that time sacred is I work with my principals on developing their observation calendar and posting it on their door and saying, "During this time, if you need me, turn to XYZ other person instead." Because if you don't put down who's going to be that person instead you're going to end up being that person. 

Building Momentum for Change

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Gibson: In New York City Public Schools, every district is responsible for adopting high-quality instructional materials and curricula. What advice would you give to other districts and school leaders about making substantial changes related to instructional leadership?

Terry: The most important thing is that you really have to be well-versed in the change that you're trying to make. When I was thinking about selecting [the ELA curriculum] Wit and Wisdom, I made sure that I really understood the curriculum and that we did a pilot before we made that change district-wide. I looked at the result of that pilot, got some success stories - for example, at Rick’s school - and then rolled with it. 

I think when people know that you're being very careful about the decisions you make, people trust you and the change happens more smoothly.

Gibson: Rick, how do you ensure that your staff are ready and able to sustain the change that you put forth?

Romain: I agree with what Celeste said. One of the best ways to get people to shift their mindset is to let them see their own progress. At my school, we try new things and then look at the result. For example, with weekly data meetings I think we started off with just one grade, and started to see a lot of progress with them. And then other grades were open to it and then eventually we expanded to the whole school. 

Gibson: One final question. We know that teaching is the hardest job in the world. How do you communicate this extremely high expectation and vision to your staff? And how do you keep morale high?

Terry: For me, you can't have these extremely high expectations without having extremely high levels of support. So we throw up a whole lot of support, but we also throw a whole lot of celebration. We're always celebrating and highlighting the teachers, the principals, the coaches that are doing extremely well.  Even if you're not at the top, we celebrate making incredible progress. 

For support, we have Relay as a partner, we have National Teaching Network as a partner, and others. You as a leader cannot know everything. Because our teachers and our school leaders know that I'm never going to ask them to do something for which I have not provided an incredible amount of support, the morale in my schools is is pretty high. My people know I believe in them, and I'm going to give them what they need.